after hours with frankie witzenburg
episode details
This podcast episode was video recorded and will be most enjoyable in that format! You can watch the video on our YouTube channel, here.
Welcome to our final episode of the season! After Hours is a fun, historical debrief and game show, where we ask some of the most prominent Queer D.C. icons for their hottest gossip and wise advice. This episode, we are joined by Frankie Witzenburg, DMV local, Community Engagement lead for QueerTalk DC, and co-founder of DMV Dyke Camp. Learn about Frankie’s thoughts on the changing Queer scene in D.C., some of their favorite memories from Phase One, and so much more!
You can find a transcript for the episode below or in pdf format here.
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Have a story to share? Think we missed something? Give us a call, and bare it all after the beep at 202-753-6570.
Special thanks to the Rainbow History Project, the DC Public Library, and the countless other academics and historians, whether featured in these episodes or not, who helped inspire and guide us through this process.
Audio and video editing by Abby Stuckrath
Videography by Sam Joachim
transcript
Text in italics and parentheses indicates ambient sound, sound effects, and music integrated into the podcast, unless noted otherwise.
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns starts and then plays in the background)
ABBY: Hey folks, thanks for tuning in to Queering the District Podcast, where we learn about the history of Queer bar third places in Washington, D.C.! Season one is focused on the evolution of Queer bars, from prohibition to present day.
This season we’ve got two types of episodes: historical and after hours. Our historical episodes explore decades of Queer bar history through narrative-driven stories, while our After Hours episodes bring back favorite guests for gossip games, advice, and late-night chats.
This is our last After Hours episode, featuring Frankie Witzenburg.
This interview is also offered in two formats: audio or video. So if you’d like to see Frankie and I giggling over our two truths and a lie on our iconic little green couch, head over to our YouTube channel to watch a video version of this podcast. Either way we are so excited for y’all to hear Frankie’s favorite memories, enjoy!
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns fades out)
FRANKIE: Man, being Queer in D.C., to me, means meeting almost every possible flavor of Queer or LGBTQ+ person there is. There are people from everywhere who come to D.C., whether as visitors, they move here for a little while, like there are just so many reasons that bring people here from literally all over the world. And, you know, granted, I haven't, you know, been in a Queer community in any other big city, but I think there's something really special about just how many different kinds of people there are within our community here.
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns starts playing and then fades into the background then ends)
ABBY: Hi, everyone, welcome to After Hours. It's a fun historical debrief and game show where we ask some local D.C. Queers for their hottest gossip and wise advice. Today, we are joined by Frankie Witzenberg, who is a DMV local, Community Engagement lead for QueerTalk DC, and co-founder of DMV Dyke Camp. Thank you so much for being here!
FRANKIE: Of course, I'm happy to be here.
ABBY: So, today, we want to talk about all things locally Queer bars in D.C. of today. Our listeners just heard your voicemail that you left about the Phase (Frankie giggles), and we talked about how the Phase closed in 2016, and, so, I'd love to talk about, first, that experience of, because it was your first Queer bar that you went to here, and, so, what was that like to learn that that bar closed when that was your first entry into the Queer community here?
FRANKIE: I mean, it was, of course, very sad. That was a big, monumental first for me. But I think the thing that really got me about it, was it was, at the time, one of the incredibly few sapphic spaces that Washington, D.C. had to offer. And I think there was something incredibly special about having that kind of space specifically for the sapphic community. And, it was tough. I mean, I can't, forgive me for this, remember when ALOHO [A League of Her Own] was founded, but I believe there was like a gap between the two of them. And so I remember for a while, kind of being pressed for spaces for people like me, and that really sucked, yeah.
ABBY: And like, you've seen D.C. change so much, like, even, like, in the past 10 years.
FRANKIE: Oh, yeah.
ABBY: Like, the Queer bar scene has gone through a lot. It's gone through, one like, the legalization of gay marriage. It's gone through the Pulse shooting. It's gone through COVID. It's gone through two Trump presidencies at this point.
FRANKIE: It's been a lot.
ABBY: And to say that that doesn't impact, like, where we gather, would be silly,
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: So like, how have you seen the Queer bar scene and gathering scene like change?
FRANKIE: So I've seen it change in some good ways and some bad. I mean, of course, we have a ton of options now, which is, you know, something that I don't ever really recall experiencing during the times that I've been active in the D.C. kind of gay scene. So that's, like, easily a net positive, I think, to have that many options.
The other positive change that I think I've seen is the emergence of more, either not super alcohol-centric or entirely alcohol-free spaces, or just, you know, spaces that really have nothing to do with partying or nightlife or anything like that. You know, we have Little District Books. You have Spark Social. I know, of course, we had Lambda Rising, but that also went away. And there was a time when it was kind of bare bones here,
ABBY: Right.
FRANKIE: So I think, I think seeing the evolution of more, more than just nightlife for this community has been really nice, I think, and that has especially taken off after COVID.
I think one of the things that I've noticed before COVID, there were a lot more house parties before COVID. And I don't just mean house parties like your friend moved in and like you and 10 of your closest homies are gonna have a housewarming party. I mean, like big open house parties where, like, friends of friends of friends could go and just meet tons of new people, usually around Pride, but just kind of generally in the warmer months. So that's really not something I see anymore, which, I don't know, those were really fun back in the day.
ABBY: Yeah.
FRANKIE: And I think the other thing that I've noticed is a kind of shift away from community care on an individual level, people are more likely, I or, you know, I don't have any stats to back this up with, but in my observations, people have been a lot more likely to, you know, leave a drunk friend behind at the club, or just not really look out for people, you know. They're still showing up to raise money and do drives and certain kinds of mutual aid. But when it just comes to, like a one-on-one level with the people you're sharing a space with, it's kind of gotten a little more hyper-individual. I've noticed, and perhaps not everywhere, I've just, I've seen it a lot more often.
ABBY: Yeah, do you think that has to do, like, with COVID? Because I feel like COVID definitely, of course, brought everyone back indoors, like, into our own spaces, and we couldn't see each other beyond just, like, a screen, and now it just becomes, or just feels, a lot harder to leave your house to go places.
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: And even though there are so many places to like, take up, it's kind of just hard to leave ever to like, go and do it. It can feel exhausting.
FRANKIE: Absolutely it can.
ABBY: So do you feel like that plays a role into that lack of, like, mutual community, like respect or love for each other?
FRANKIE: I think that has something to do with it. You know, people, like you said, are a lot more hesitant to go out in general, and thus have a little bit less experience going out. But I also think part of it has to do with, you know, and this is not a dig, because I think the younger generation is awesome, and I'm really excited to see what the younger Queers are going to do in the world. But when I was that age, when I was, you know, in my early 20s, freshly 21, even in some cases younger than that, sorry. You know, I was looking to older Queers to learn etiquette in nightlife spaces. To learn how to take care of each other, looking towards these people who had been out and about for much longer than I have, and you have this whole group of people who during those ages were coming up in a time when they couldn't leave their house, right?
So I think a lot of that kind of community knowledge sharing got skipped for quite a few years, especially when it comes to things like etiquette and safety and, you know, those things that we kind of all rely on each other to uphold when we're in a space together. I think a lot of people missed out on that to learn it in the up and coming generation. I think a lot of people forgot it, even people who were around earlier because they didn't go out for a really long time, and they might have kind of forgotten what it's like to look out for people in that way.
ABBY: I feel like this podcast, if anything, has just taught me the importance of, like, multi-generational community building. And, like, nightlife isn't the most conducive for that. Like, I'd probably say, like, you know that, like, what time of the night what kind of ages will probably be at the bar.
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: It was like, Okay, if you go at like, nine or 10, you'll probably meet the more, like, maybe, like, millennial, sort of aged, like, reasonably so.
FRANKIE: We're tired!
ABBY: You’re tired! Then you’ve got like, Gen Z, who are, like, still in college, who would be out at midnight, and I would be at like a pregame and they're like, ‘Yeah, we're not heading out till midnight.’ I'm like, (groans) that’s exhausting.
FRANKIE: Oh my god, are you kidding. That's when I want to be going back home.
ABBY: Exactly! But that's when you find a lot of like that younger crowd, and it's because they want to be in that younger crowd. But when you're only with people of your own age, you're only with that lived experience,
FRANKIE: Exactly
ABBY: Therefore that own perspective.
FRANKIE: I also think that before COVID, there was a lot more of a chance for, like, there was more multi-generational crossover that would happen. Like, I remember going out earlier some nights and meeting, you know, Gen Xers and even Boomers sometimes. And like you said, there's no really intermingling in our nightlife spaces. It's really kind of, you know, stuck to Gen Z and millennials at this point.
ABBY: But like with your talk with, like, with your work with QueerTalk DC, like, you obviously know of a lot of the things that are going on in the District because you're creating those, like, weekly guides. So where and what spaces do you see investing a lot into like kind of disrupting this narrative of like us, not having these multi-generational conversations or sharing advice? Like, what Queer bars or Queer spaces do you see in your work, moving us towards like, that sense of community again?
FRANKIE: So I've noticed, actually recently, like in the past year, there's been an uptick in not just spaces, but organizers and organizations that are being geared towards, and I'm gonna say older, even though a lot of these they're not, like cut off, I don't think they're old. They're people, I'm a couple years away from being eligible for a few of these, so they’re not for old people, because I am young, and I am hip, but there's been an increase in like 30 and 35+ groups. There are more efforts to bring like, just this week I saw that I believe, As You Are, is hosting Queer Senior speed dating for people 50+, which is so cool.
As You Are, As You Are, I think more than any space that I personally frequent, definitely attracts more of a diverse crowd when it comes to age. And I think that's in part because it's not exclusively a nightlife space.
ABBY: Right.
FRANKIE: You know, people can come get coffee pretty much at any point during the day. They can just hang out and read, do work. You know, it's not just for nightlife,
ABBY: Right.
FRANKIE: And, I actually, that's one of my favorite things about AYA [As You Are], I think, is that it does attract a pretty interesting spread of people, especially when it comes to ages.
ABBY: Yeah, I feel like we're seeing a lot more Queer spaces trying to incorporate both that, like coffee shop or like, like quiet gathering space with, like, the nightlight.
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: Spark, I think is doing that.
FRANKIE: Yeah, definitely.
ABBY: Which or, like, you'll even find that, like, a lot of Queer bars are open at like noon, and they like, serve food, because, one, it's like, they need to pay their bills, and that's how they make money.
FRANKIE: Yes, of course.
ABBY: But it's also another way for people who don't want to be out at like 10 or 11…
FRANKIE: To still have somewhere to go.
ABBY: To still have somewhere to go.
FRANKIE: Yeah, exactly.
ABBY: Amazing. So, what, in your opinion, is, like, your personal like, perfect night out in D.C.? There's a lot of different places to go. How has that kind of like changed? Like, when you were first going out, like, when you were freshly 21, or a little bit younger than 21, like, where were your favorite spots to go with, like, your friends been? How has that like evolved as you’ve gotten older and as the city's changed?
FRANKIE: So, when I was younger, I was definitely like a, we're pre-gaming at someone's house. We're, you know, dinner, I've never met her. Like it, you know, it was all about, it was all about the partying.
ABBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
FRANKIE: It was all about the, you know, getting ready and putting on your makeup and, like, doing all our, you know, our business casual millennial nightclub wear (Abby chuckles), and that was kind of, that was kind of the focus. And I hate to say it like this, but like it was to get drunk, you know.
ABBY: Yeah.
FRANKIE: We were 21, we were 22, again, sometimes under that, and like that was kind of what we were out to go and do.
And the places I would go to do that, you know, Phase One, obviously. I would go to Town pretty often, especially because, I can't remember if it was always or just occasionally, but I knew they would host nights for 18 year olds, like 18 to 20, so like, even if you weren't of drinking age, you could still go out. We would go to Remingtons. I used to work in Capital South and Remingtons was right along the Eastern Market stretch, and there was, I won't name them, and I don't think they're operational anymore, but there was, like, a restaurant there that would serve people without IDs. (Abby laughs) So we would like go there, and then go to Remingtons. And I guess, Remington, I don't even know how I got into Remington, I'll be honest. But so those are, like, the top three that I think I would go to back then.
ABBY: Yeah.
FRANKIE: Now, my night out, my perfect night in D.C., looks a lot different. I still love to go dancing. I love specifically going to like, the bigger spaces are not really my thing anymore. So, like,Town was huge, ALOHO and Pitchers, a little overstimulating. I really enjoy As You Are. And, you know, instead of necessarily going and dancing, just hanging out with my friends and getting drinks, and their phenomenal chicken tendies and just talking, playing games. But I also love going out dancing at like Sinners and Saints.
ABBY: Yeah!
FRANKIE: That's probably my favorite place to go dancing. They get a lot of really cool DJs, and it's more intimate, which I prefer. I don't want to feel like I'm, you know, fighting my way through a sea of, like, hundreds of people.
ABBY: Right, right.
FRANKIE: I don't like that anymore.
ABBY: Yeah, and that's a fairly new spot that just opened up, I feel like, within the last year. So that one's really cute. We have the phi-phi, our phone.
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: She was there for a little bit. Got the, some of the most
FRANKIE: Unhinged
ABBY: (Frankie and Abby laugh) Unhinged voicemails from that one.
FRANKIE: People who frequent Sinners and Saints are unhinged, but I find in a generally delightful way.
(upbeat, joyful lo-fi music begins to fade in in the background)
ABBY: Yes, no yes, it's a great place.
(upbeat, joyful lo-fi music swells and then fades into the background and then out)
ABBY: In this next section, we're gonna play the classic game, two truths and a lie. Now we've come up with two truths about Queer, about our Queer bar life experience, and we've got one lie. We're gonna try and sniff them out. Okay, so what are your two truths and a lie?
FRANKIE: So my two truths and a lie are… I have once seen two ex-girlfriends jello wrestling while their shared ex-girlfriend emceed the whole affair.
ABBY: Stunning.
FRANKIE: Right?
ABBY: Stunning, that better be a truth, because I also want it to be true. (Abby and Frankie laugh)
FRANKIE: I also want it to be a truth. I have encountered team members of Washington Spirit. I cannot recall their names, (Abby gasps) but team members of Washington Spirit out and about during the nightlife before.
ABBY: Oh my god.
FRANKIE: And the next one is that one time I brought a stuffed animal to a gay bar with me, and the bartenders adopted it and spent the whole night, like, dressing it up with different props and taking care of it for me. And then when I left the club at 2am, they gave him back to me and gave me a free shot.
ABBY: Well, I want all of these to be true so… (Frankie laughs) Okay, that last one just seems way too detailed to be a lie (Frankie laughs). If that was the lie, that's crazy. Okay, I feel like I'm gonna go with the Washington Spirit one is a lie.
FRANKIE: Yeah, that was too easy.
ABBY: Ok, good, yay!
FRANKIE: Yes, the ex trifecta was real. That was at Phase One, and it was both physically and metaphorically messy.
ABBY: How did they do jello wrestling in a bar?
FRANKIE: They would usually do it outside. But it was like..
ABBY: What does jello wrestling even look like?
FRANKIE: You have like, a kiddie pool and like,
ABBY: And it's just jello?
FRANKIE: Yeah, basically, they would do it outside sometimes, and I think they would do it inside sometimes too.
ABBY: Oh, my god.
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: How many people jello wrestled?
FRANKIE: I don't remember. It's been years, but, like, I mean, it was usually like, one-on-one, right? Like, it wasn't just like a tub of people.
ABBY: Did you ever jello wrestle?
FRANKIE: No, I did not. I know.
ABBY: Somebody needs to bring it back.
FRANKIE: Yeah!
ABBY: Bring back jello wrestling,
FRANKIE: Yeah, anybody out there.
ABBY: Please, we want to see it. Okay, but I feel like Washington Spirit, we need to see you out. They probably are.
FRANKIE: They do go out. So I've never encountered any of them, but I do know folks who have so, like, they're out there.
ABBY: They need to go to As You Are. They're like the…
FRANKIE: I think they do go to As You Are.
ABBY: Yeah, As You Are, are their biggest…
FRANKIE: I’m pretty confident,
ABBY: Biggest supporter.
FRANKIE: Yes.
ABBY: Okay. Are you ready for my two truths and a lie?
FRANKIE: I've never been more ready.
ABBY: Okay, just this past year, at World Pride, standing outside of Trade, got skipped in line by a group of straight women…
FRANKIE: Absolutely not.
ABBY: who thought they were going to the bar next door. And then they quickly left after we saw them enter the bar.
Went to, Ellie convinced me (chuckles) during, I think it was like the Women's World, not World, maybe it was the, I think it was the Olympics this past year, saying that the lesbians are going to show out for the 4am soccer match that As You Are was playing. And so I drag Mads, our, my newest roommate, who was not a Queer woman…
FRANKIE: Oh man.
ABBY: But was like, “I’ll come along”
FRANKIE: A fierce ally.
ABBY: A fierce ally to be up at four, and Ellie, Ellie was like the lesbians will show up and show out. We drive to As You Are. We open the door. The only people that are sitting there are Jo and Coach.
FRANKIE: Oh my god.
ABBY: And we, like, pull out a chair, (Frankie laughs) and we sit, and then I tell Ellie, we're leaving, (Frankie laughs) and then we run away because I was like, we can't. No, it was too, for the anxiety girls, (Frankie laughs) way too much.
FRANKIE: Off the charts.
ABBY: And then one of my first gay bar experiences was gay Halloween, and I dressed up as a sexy pickle, and I danced on the dance floor, and the only number I got was from an older gay man who thought I was Pickle Rick.
FRANKIE: Not Pickle Rick. Oh, man, (deeply sighs) I don't know. I think, I think you might be lying to me about Pickle Rick.
(long pause)
ABBY: Is that your guess?
FRANKIE: Yeah, that's my guess.
ABBY: No, that's true. (Abby and Frankie laugh)
FRANKIE: Did that actually happen? Oh, my god, iconic.
ABBY: That was my first, that's right when Mads and I first started dating. She went as an orange, I went as a pickle. And I wore like, you know, like Patrick,
FRANKIE: the sexy, like, fish,
ABBY: the sexy fishnets, and then, like, a black bra over the top, and I made my pickle costume, like a short little mini dress. Everyone thought I was Pickle Rick. And I was like, I'm clearly just a sexy pickle.
FRANKIE: Yeah, you're way hotter than Pickle Rick.
ABBY: And this, like, older gay guy on the dance floor found me, and he was like, “Pickle!” And then he, like, made me give his number, and then he put me in his phone as Pickle Rick. (addresses camera) Give me a call, if you're out there, if you're out there, I'm not Pickle Rick.
FRANKIE: Do you want to bring back jello wrestling Pickle Rick?
ABBY: Yes, we want to see more pickles on the dance floor (Frankie laughs) and more jello wrestling. Amazing.
FRANKIE: Oh, wait, so what was your lie?
ABBY: Oh, what was my lie? My lie was about Trade because it…
FRANKIE: That was so believable, though!
ABBY: So what did happen was we were standing in line to go outside for Trade, and this group of straight women came up, and they were like, what's this line for? Is this for? There's like, one straight bar that's right next door to Trade.
FRANKIE: Yeah, the one right next to it says, like, I don't know what it’s called.
ABBY: Yeah, there's even, like, a sign that said, like, this is not that bar (Frankie laughs), and they, like, asked us what line we were waiting in. “They were like, oh my god, this is the line,” and I went, (sassily) “No, not for that” And they went (whispering) “Oh this is for the gay bar”
FRANKIE: Did they whisper it?
ABBY: They were like, oh, like, do you remember this [gestures to Mads behind camera]? Mads can attest
FRANKIE: Kind of clutching their pearls?
ABBY: Like clutching, I literally turned away. I was like, why are the straights not bunkering in place right now?
FRANKIE: Literally.
ABBY: It's Pride. It's World Pride.
FRANKIE: Stay inside.
ABBY: Stay inside.
FRANKIE: Support a gay person, stay inside.
ABBY: Support a gay… put it on a shirt, I wanna see it! (Frankie laughs) Especially World Pride.
FRANKIE: Yes.
ABBY: Stay indoors.
FRANKIE: Please
ABBY: Watch your TV shows. Okay.
FRANKIE: You have so many choices
ABBY: You have so many! (Frankie laughs)
(upbeat, joyful lo-fi music starts to play, swells, then fades into the background and then out)
ABBY: Our next segment is a take on your favorite dating app, but instead, we're going to be using your favorite Queer bars. So we're going to be swiping left and swiping right on the Queer bars that are open today. So I'll just name them, and you can tell me if that's a left or if that's a right. So left uh-uh (shakes head).
FRANKIE: You got it.
ABBY: Right, love. Okay? I feel like we already know the first one, but As You Are,
FRANKIE: Right.
ABBY: Right. Crush.
FRANKIE: Left.
ABBY: Why left?
FRANKIE: Just not really my scene.
ABBY: Yeah.
FRANKIE: I don't frequent it. I've been a few times, and it just, not really the kind of vibe I seek. I'm sure it's great for the people who love it, but.
ABBY: Yeah, yeah feel like that's most bars that like when we're swiping left and right. It's like, it's just not my thing, but ya know good people.
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: Ok, Trade?
FRANKIE: That's a right.
ABBY: A right?
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: Have you been there since the expansion?
FRANKIE: Yes, actually.
ABBY: How do you feel?
FRANKIE: Their expansion is sick.
ABBY: Yeah.
FRANKIE: I think it looks beautiful.
ABBY: Yes!
FRANKIE: The centerpiece on the ceiling, and I will not reveal any more than that, is gorgeous.
ABBY: She’s stunning, go see it. Support a Queer business.
FRANKIE: I love and respect Ed Bailey. So, I don't know. I mean, it's not, it's not the kind of place that I go to all the time, but I enjoy every time I go there.
ABBY: It's a good staple.
FRANKIE: Exactly.
ABBY: You always know it's there.
FRANKIE: If somebody invites me to go, I'm gonna be like, You know what? Yeah, let's go to Trade. Like, that sounds nice.
ABBY: Yeah, love it. Okay, Bunker.
FRANKIE: Left, yeah.
ABBY: Yeah. Have you been?
FRANKIE: I went once, and, again, just not, there's not, how do I say, a lot of people like me there very often. And that again, for the people who love it, they love it, and I love that for them, but I don't see a lot of more sapphic-oriented events that happen there. Not that every place needs to do that, but like, I personally am far more likely to go if there is some kind of sapphic situation.
ABBY: Yeah, I think that's fair.
FRANKIE: They've done it once or twice, to their credit. It's not like it's never happened, but it was only once or twice, and that was like a long time ago, so.
ABBY: I work at Spark Social, just like,
FRANKIE: Wait you work?
ABBY: Just very casual, like on Sundays every week.
FRANKIE: Very good.
ABBY: And my favorite thing that we saw during World Pride was, I was driving in at 7:30am.
FRANKIE: Oh God.
ABBY: Saturday and Sunday morning.
FRANKIE: Were you leaving the Bunker leaving, or watching them leave?
ABBY: And Bunker was like crowds of our favorite gay boys coming out. And I was like, (with emphasis) it is 7am, and then my favorite thing is Spark, we have, like, our cages that come down.
FRANKIE: Yeah.
ABBY: I was walking, and we found two of our favorite fruity little gays were on our door, like, making out.
FRANKIE: Oh my god.
ABBY: Because they just came out of Bunker. And I was, and then they, like, get embarrassed. And I was like, no, like, don't worry.
FRANKIE: Good for y’all.
ABBY: And they go, “Happy Pride.” And I was like, “Happy Pride!” So Bunker, I think, is a very like, I talked to Nick, who he loved, who owns SparkSsocial, he loves Bunker. He said, he, because he loved Town. He was like…
FRANKIE: Okay, similar.
ABBY: Feels very similar to Bunker for like that part of the community…
FRANKIE: Absolutely.
ABBY: [still talking about Nick’s experience] I could take my shirt off and just like dance…
FRANKIE: Exactly which, while that might not be for me, I'm glad that that option exists for people whose vibe that is.
ABBY: Very clubby.
FRANKIE: Yeah!
ABBY: I wouldn’t say there's a lot of clubby, clubby places.
FRANKIE: No, we need, there, here is a time and a place for clubby spaces.
ABBY: Yes.
FRANKIE: They belong around here.
ABBY: Yes.
FRANKIE: (whispering) I'm just not gonna go in.
ABBY: And that's okay, (Frankie laughs) probably neither am I, yeah, but love that the girls love it.
FRANKIE: Oh, yeah.
ABBY: Okay, Kiki.
FRANKIE: Kiki is a right from me. It's not a place I go to all the time. But again, I like what they've done for the community. I like that they host a lot of various fundraisers and things like that. And while it's not, again, somewhere I frequent, I'm glad they're there. I'm glad they're there.
ABBY: How about Pitchers?
FRANKIE: Pitchers is a left.
ABBY: Okay, why is that?
FRANKIE: Um, it's a little over stimulating for me.
ABBY: That's fair.
FRANKIE: And again, just not really my vibe. And also, I feel like, due to its popularity, Pitchers is the most likely place you're going to encounter straight people.
ABBY: Yeah, I think that's fair.
FRANKIE: And that's, again, not a dig against Pitchers as like an institution or business. They do what they do, and that's fine, but just the crowd that goes there really isn't my kind of, my kind of scene.
ABBY: Yeah, I think, like, Pitchers was my first gay bar, and I went when I was… (pauses)
FRANKIE: Young (giggles)
ABBY: not 21…
FRANKIE: Oops (jokingly)
ABBY: and it's that place where, like, a lot of the college kids go because they know they can get in.
FRANKIE: Exactly
ABBY: And because it's, it can be, it's a great time on the dance floor when the music’s right and vibe is right. Young people love it.
FRANKIE: Oh, yeah.
ABBY: And so I think Pitchers is a great spot for, like, anyone trying to get into the scene.
FRANKIE: Yeah, for sure. And they do host like, fun events. Like, I know that D.C. Brawhides does line dancing there.
ABBY: Yeah!
FRANKIE: They have fun things going on, and they do work with community organizers, so I respect that.
ABBY: Yeah, and they've got Mario Kart, so that's
FRANKIE: Yeah that’s a net positive.
ABBY: A big win there, it’s Mario Kart.
FRANKIE: We love a Mario Kart.
ABBY: Okay, now below it. ALOHO [A League of Her Own], how do you feel?
FRANKIE: Um, that's, that's a tough one. I wish I could just like, not swipe at all, you know. Because it's not like an immediate, yes, but it's also not like a super immediate no. I think I'm probably going to have to go with left. I feel, I feel pretty similarly about it as I do with Pitchers.
ABBY: Yeah.
FRANKIE: I do enjoy it because, you know, it was one of the first lesbian bars that I went to, because at that point I had been to like, Phase One, and that was kind of like it. So I was, like, nice, I've been to two lesbian bars now, and that was nice. And it opened up in a time where, like, that was exciting because, like I said, when Phase One closed, there wasn't a lot of options.
ABBY: Yeah.
FRANKIE: And it was nice to have one again. It's not my first choice nowadays, but it did, I think when I was younger, like, have that going for it.
ABBY: Yeah, definitely.
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FRANKIE: I think dreams going forward for the community, I'd like to see more non-nightlife, non-alcohol centric things going on. I want to see more, you know, field days. I want to see more book clubs, of which there are already a ton. But like, you know, just more kind of recreational, like play, play-based activities, which is part of the reason DMV Dyke Camp came into being. But like bringing joy back.
ABBY: Like bringing joy back, that's not just nightlight.
FRANKIE: Exactly, like other other places of joy. I want to see a lot more of that, and hopefully I'll get to be the one making some of that. And, oh man, I don't know, I guess just, I just want to see it keep going. You know, it's, it's in a better place than I've ever personally seen it in, and I think it's more important now than ever, especially living in a place like Washington, D.C., that we have safe places that we can go to and just relax and be ourselves and be openly with our partners and our friends and all of that, and just exist,
ABBY: Yeah.
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ABBY: Thank you so much for being with us tonight. It was so great to talk about all things Queer D.C., with the bars and our dreams going forward, and to send us home, Frankie's going to leave us a voicemail on our resident phone, phi-phi. so go ahead and leave us your favorite Queer memory about D.C.
FRANKIE: All right, so my favorite memory from D.C. is actually a recently formed one from DMV Dyke Camp in 2025, back in May. We hosted a talent show, and pretty much the whole camp turned out for it, so well over probably about 150 people. And Queers, all from the DMV, of course, mostly, went up on stage and did all sorts of really wonderful things, like jump roping and burlesque routines, and art, and music. And every time somebody went up there, it was like seeing their inner child going up onto this stage. And I cried. I don't know why. I don't know if I was, you know, just riding the high of organizing something, but it was just so beautiful to see, you know, these Queer adults getting to connect with their inner child and like, go up and play and be clapped for and be admired and appreciated. And it was just really beautiful. And I'm looking forward to having more memories like that.
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ABBY: Hey baby… we’re so glad you’re here, thanks for listening until the end of the episode.
We’re so sad to say this is the last episode of the season! We’ve loved the entire process of making this podcast. From eye-opening research to meeting new people to feeling more connected to the city itself, this podcast has brought our team so much. We hope you’ve found something, no matter how small, in the podcast that speaks to you as well.
If you want to learn more and stay up to date on all things Queering the District Podcast, follow our social media pages @queeringthedistrictpodcast! You don’t want to miss exclusive interview clips, juicy voicemails, and, of course, our bi-weekly spotlights.
We want to thank the Rainbow History Project, the DC Public Library, and the countless other academics and historians, whether featured in these episodes or not, who really helped inspire and guide us through this process.
And shout out to the rest of the QTDP team, Ellie, Mads, and Sam for making this podcast happen.
You can find a transcript for this, and every episode, on our website at queeringthedistrictpodcast.com and linked below in the episode notes.
And don’t worry, our phone lines remain wide open, 24/7, just for you! Have a story to share? Think we missed something? Give us a call, and bare it all after the beep at 202-753-6570.
And, of course, stay tuned to hear about all the new and exciting things we will be up to soon! Love you, bye!
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