after hours with donnell robinson/ella fitzgerald
episode details
After Hours is a fun, historical debrief and game show, where we ask some of the most prominent Queer D.C. icons for their hottest gossip and wise advice. This episode, we are joined by Donnell Robinson aka Ella Fitzgerald, legendary Drag Queen and performer. Learn about Ella’s first foray into Drag, the best parts of getting ready with other Drag Queens, tips and tricks for the perfect makeup, and so much more!
You can find a transcript for the episode below or a pdf version here.
If you want to learn more and stay up to date on all things Queering the District Podcast, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
Have a story to share? Think we missed something? Give us a call, and bare it all after the beep at 202-753-6570.
Special thanks to the Rainbow History Project, the DC Public Library, and the countless other academics and historians, whether featured in these episodes or not, who helped inspire and guide us through this process.
Audio editing by Madalyn Reagan
Videography by Sam Joachim
Video editing by Abby Stuckrath, Madalyn Reagan, and Sam Joachim
transcript
Text in italics and parentheses indicates ambient sound, sound effects, and music integrated into the podcast, unless noted otherwise.
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns starts and then plays in the background)
ABBY: Hey folks, thanks for tuning in to Queering the District Podcast, where we learn about the history of Queer third places in Washington, D.C.! Season one is focused on the evolution of Queer bars, from prohibition to present day.
This season we’ve got two types of episodes: historical and after hours. Our historical episodes explore decades of Queer bar history through narrative-driven stories, while our After Hours episodes bring back favorite guests for gossip games, advice, and late-night chats.
This week is an After Hours episode, a one-on-one conversation with Donnell Robinson, or better known as Ella Fitzgerald, a legendary D.C. Drag Queen, who was once a member of the Academy, a prominent Drag organization, and once host and star of the Ziegfeld weekly Drag show.
If you’d like to learn more about the Academies and Ella, tune into our last historical episode, “an ode to the children” which is out right now.
This interview is also offered in two formats: audio or video. This interview features Donnell and I going through his photo book of memories, and him doing my Drag makeup. So if you’d like to see some fun old photos of Ziegfelds and watch me get into full glam, head to our YouTube page to watch a video version of this episode. Either way we are so excited for y’all to hear all of Donnell’s favorite memories and juicy stores, enjoy!
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns fades out)
DONNELL/ELLA: Camera, action (dramatically gasps). (soulful, romantic music starts to play in the background) My wig’s not on.
When I came out and came to Arlington and started Drag, (soulful, romantic music fades out) I knew that there was a place for me, and I knew that during Drag I would be able to express my art, or my funniness, as they called it. And I think that the community accepted me right away. Not as, not as a Drag Queen, or just as a funny person, so. Yeah, and I'm very proud and honored that I have survived 50 years to even just talk about it. So yeah, I thank the community for accepting me and loving me and giving me lots of their money. (Ella and Abby laugh)
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns starts playing and then fades into the background)
ABBY: Hi everyone, welcome to After Hours, a fun historical debrief and game show where we ask some of the most prominent Queer D.C. icons for their hottest gossip and wise advice. We are joined here today by the D.C. Drag icon, Donnell Robinson, aka the Ella Fitzgerald, who was once a member of the Washington Academy and host of the legendary show at Ziegfelds.
So you've just had such a beautiful career here in the District, and our listeners have heard some of your, like, fabulous and really funny stories about you performing at Ziegfelds, your first Drag audition, and just running the Ziegfeld pageant, but I'd love if we could start out today talking about what drew you to Drag, and why you wanted to be a Drag Queen, or if you even knew what Drag was once you started.
ELLA: I didn't know what Drag was until I came out in 1975, and I went to the Pier Nine, and I put two and two together. There was this beautiful blonde trans girl, and I didn't understand why she was lip singing because, at that time we didn't know about trans, so I thought it was a woman just lip singing. And then that's how I learned I'm like, ‘oh, so I can do what she does, but not have to have all the change in, you know, change in my body.’
So, I started Drag right away, that was in the summer. Then I went back in the fall of October, Halloween time, entered the Halloween contest, and I got to do Drag as Geraldine. That's when, that was my first big stardom, $50 winner, career. (Ella and Abby laugh)
ABBY: What did you wear that night?
ELLA: I wore my Geraldine red dress that I had used when I was in junior high, same outfit, same pocketbook. And, of course, I didn't have to perform. I just had to walk out because it was a contest. So they, people knew the character.
ABBY: Got it…
ELLA: So, I didn't have to perform. I just had to walk out and that, and that's what happened.
And there were like three categories, like extravaganza, most beautiful, most this, and comedy categories. So I, and then I was amazed when I saw the ones that were giving all this extravaganza and white feathers and beads and chiffon, and I'm like, ‘wow, so ooh, that's what we can do, or that's what I can do.’ And it took me 10 years before I got to do that. Yeah.
ABBY: So what kinda…
ELLA: When I joined the Academies, is when I became, I went from comedy to more classic, sophisticated, sequins, feathers, rhinestones, boas, updos, all that, crowns, all that. So the Academies is where I really changed from being a comedian, [still] just some comedies, you know, performances, but they didn't refer to me as a comedian once I joined the Academies.
ABBY: How did the, you talk about, like, that transition from comedy to glamor? Could you give an example of, like, how your act sort of changed once you joined the Academies? How, how did your looks look different? How did the performances that you gave, how did they look different once you sort of learned what you learned in the Academy?
ELLA: Well, in the Academies, you could, you could basically do all of it: comedy, drama, disco, whatever. So, once I got out of that comedy level and being in the Academies and, you know, changing different looks and gowns instead of just something at the thrift store, you know, something out of a little bag.
So the Academies taught me, you know, if you want to be, and the Academies offered so many prestigious titles. If you want to be Miss Universe, you have to dress this way. If you're going to be Miss Gay America, you have to dress this way. Or the Queen of Hearts, or Cinderella and Prince Charming. So the Academies were more formal, a formal gay organization for Drag Queens and women and men. And we got to elevate, you know, it was kind of done like on merit.
So you've been in Academies now years, so now we're going to give you Mother of the Year. That was my first big title. And then Mother Mame, bless her heart, came to me. She said, “Dear, we're going to make you the first Black Miss Gay universe.”
I was like, wow, they really do love me, okay. (Abby chuckles) So I got to wear the Crown of Stars, 1986. That was, that was one of the, probably my biggest highlight of my Drag career, was when I was Miss Gay Universe, because I was the first African American one in the group. Mmhmm.
The beauty pageants were Miss Gay America and Miss Gay universe. And you had to, you had to, what do they call, earn merit. You have to climb the ladder. Like when they first decide if they wanted you to be Miss Universe, you had to be third runner up one year, second runner up, first runner up, and then they crowned you.
ABBY: Wow.
ELLA: But you had to pay to wear the crown of stars. So it cost us (laughingly) $600 to be Miss Universe.
ABBY: (incredulously) 600? That's a lot!
ELLA: Back then, yeah. So Mother Mame, she says, “My dear, we want you to be Miss Universe.” So the first year you had to pay $100, then you had to pay $200. That's three, then you paid another $200, in the last year the $100, and then you, the night of service, predetermined. Miss Universe was all [predetermined], and that's how they started it.
And back in the day, when they had it, when I was told, in ‘68, they would have these big, elaborate dinner parties in your home. And you'd have at least four Queens that were running, wanted to be Miss Universe, and whoever threw the most fabulous party would be crowned Miss Universe.
ABBY: Oh my gosh.
ELLA: And then it got so much out of hand, I was blessed. They stopped that in ‘82, ‘83, and then they started making us pay $600 to wear the Crown of Stars.
ABBY: Do you think it was the Academies that really made D.C. feel like home for you as a Drag performer?
ELLA: Yes, but a lot of the, back in the late 70s and 80s, a lot of the people didn't know of the Academies, or they didn't attend any of the Academy’s regular weekly functions, because we had functions every Sunday.
And the bar back then was across the street from the FBI building. It's now Wells Fargo at the corner of Ninth and Penn, to your left, there's a Wells Fargo, and that's where the bar was. It was Louie’s, The Barn, and then Oscar Zei, which was the home of the Academies on the third floor, and that's where we all came out, was there in that big building.
It's crazy to come down Ninth Street. I can't help but turn to the left, and it's a Wells Fargo, it's crazy.
(soulful, romantic music starts to play in the background)
ABBY: The city has changed a lot.
ELLA: Well, yeah, everything, yeah, the whole, and the gay scene as well. You know, we're all, it's only like Rayceen and I. We're, it's only a handful of us left that can talk about any of the little history from back then, like Ninth Street. People would have never believed how, what was there back in 1976 when I was 20, 21 years old.
(Abby and Ella turning the pages of a photo book full of newspaper clippings and photos of Ella’s Drag career and a photo book page flips)
ABBY: And then…
ELLA: This is from the old Ziegfelds, that picture.
ABBY: I love!
ELLA: That’s the way it was set out.
ABBY: That's so pretty.
ELLA: That was the old Ziegfelds. So the stage was in the round, and the ordinances was all here, all around in front of us, all around the staircase was, that was a DJ booth, and the staircase was up there.
ABBY: It was like,
ELLA: up there.
ABBY: Wow.
ELLA: 16 steps we had to come down.
(soulful, romantic music fades out)
ABBY: Oh, in all those heels?
ELLA: Yes, so our dressing room was, like, up here. Then we walked out, there was a little area to stand before they could see us. And then we had to come down, (mimicking walking down the stairs) duh,duh,duh,duh, and then out to the stage.
ABBY: Oh my gosh.
ELLA: At the old Ziegfeld’s, that's it. I forgot about that picture.
ABBY: I wish we still had something like this, with the small little tables and the stage, very glamorous.
ELLA: And that's the other thing that I'm very disappointed. It's sad that, of all places, the nation's capital, that we don't have that anymore. Because there were only two: Ziegfelds, and then across town, it was called Town. Any y'all remember Town? The big disco?
ABBY: We weren't here when Town was open.
ELLA: But you’ve heard about it?
ABBY: But we’ve heard about it.
ELLA: Yes, and they were, in a sense, our competition. But it was a whole younger crowd that went, whole different crowd from U Street that went to Town than came to Southeast.
ABBY: Right.
ELLA: Whole different crowd. We got all the bachelorette parties and all the boys, naked boys upstairs, and the daddies, a mixture of everybody. Where Town was mostly young, young, young, young, young.
ABBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(photo book page flips)
ELLA: That's a crazy night.
ABBY: That’s a fun photo.
ELLA: Yes, I was doing the song, ‘bitch.’ You know the song ‘bitch’? (singing) I hate the world today. You're so good to me. I know that I can change.
ABBY: I don’t know if I know that song.
ELLA: (singing) I'm a bitch. I'm a liar. I’m a sinner. I’m a saint.
ABBY: Oh, okay, yes.
ELLA: I was doing that at the old Ziegfelds. So I would take these pretty boys and bring them upstage and take their clothes off of them. (Abby laughs) Not that, not nude.
ABBY: Yeah.
ELLA: I'd take the belt out and put it around their neck and walk them around the stage, do crazy stuff. Oh, yeah.
So that type of comedy compared to the 60s and 70s, because this was probably in early 2000s, that's still kind of a comedy, but not comedy, comedy.
ABBY: Right, not the roller skates.
(photo book page flips)
ELLA: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I had this affair with this white boy named Kendall. I was supposed to go to bingo one night, and he said, “Donnell, we not going to bingo. We're going to buy your new outfit.” We got this little pants. I never liked it because of the color. I hated it, but it was new, and I wore it.
ABBY: It’s pretty.
ELLA: I didn't go to bingo one night, and he made me go buy this for like, 100 bucks, somewhere down on route one.
(photo book page flips)
My most memorable night was probably this, when the first Ziegfelds closed 2006.
ABBY: So what was that last performance at the Ziegfelds like?
ELLA: That was insane. That was a Saturday night. Yeah, I think we had over 2,000 people.
ABBY: Wow.
ELLA: It was crazy. The doors were open. We didn't even really get a chance to lip sing. We just walked around and picked up money. (Abby laughs) I did four performances. I’ll never forget that, four or five. And the next day, me and one of the dancers, they had a back problem, one of the boys came, Robbie, came to my apartment, spent the night, and we chilled out.
Got up the next morning. Put all that money together: $2,173
ABBY: Wow.
ELLA: For lip syncing (chuckles). I wish I had it today! (Abby laughs) That was in 2006.
ABBY: You were just loved in the community.
ELLA: All of us, everyone and me. It's like five Queens and myself that night at the old Ziegfelds. And everybody made over two grand.
ABBY: Wow
ELLA: It's a lot of money. And then we were closed for three and a half years, almost three, and then we moved, ‘09, to the new location. Yeah, that was crazy.
ABBY: Did you know that Zigfelds was going to reopen somewhere else when y'all had to close?
ELLA: We did not.
ABBY: So how did that feel, losing this place?
ELLA: We were all devastated. We were devastated, and financially, because we made so much money there, you know, all, everyone suffered. And of course, I'm doing hair, but it was, and, of course, we all were doing shows, we’re all over the city too, wherever we could find a gig.
Mmhmm. I did a lot of different little bars. In Adams Morgan, worked a couple places. I worked at Barry's a little bit, that was a bar on 17th Street. Chaos, and, of course, my friend Freddie from Freddie's Beach Bar.
ABBY: Right
ELLA: Yeah, Freddie and I've been friends 40 years. I worked a lot at Freddie's. So, and then, we reopened in February, ‘09, at the new location. And then we were back to the grind.
(soulful, romantic starts playing in the background)
But that wasn't really home, home, even though I came out at that bar, because it was the beer when I came out, Ziegfelds too, but the original Ziegfelds was home, because that's where I started, 1980.
(soulful, romantic swells then starts playing in the background)
ABBY: In this segment, Donnell is going to show us the tricks of the trade when it comes to Drag makeup, while we talk about all the fun stories about getting ready for the shows and how makeup has changed over the years. So, what was sort of like your first step that you would like to do?
(soulful, romantic fades out)
ELLA: Okay, so me, personally, I always start with the blush. And why I start with the blush, because it sets, it gives you a guideline on, in other words, it closes out your face and gives you a guideline or blockage.
So, I'm going to go right under your bone there and give you just a little bit of contouring. So the keyword is to (with emphasis) blend.
ABBY: Blend.
ELLA: Blend. You can wear as much as you want, as long as it's blended. You see, you still see that, but see how I'm blending that out. You all see that fading, but you still see that line. Yes, someone say yes or no.
CREW: Yes (Abby and crew laughs)
ABBY: What was sort of your favorite thing about getting ready?
ELLA: Eyelashes.
ABBY: Eyelashes.
ELLA: The eyelashes tells the whole story.
ABBY: How long would it typically take you to get ready?
ELLA: Normally, once I start I can have my face done in 45 minutes.
ABBY: Wow.
ELLA: 45 minutes is average, with no interruption. Look up. You get all that up under. That's what I do first, do my highlight, my blush and highlight, and then the next thing I do is my lip.
So you can use, especially if I have it on, then you don't have to use a lipstick. You can use a eye shadow if there's an emergency. See how your lip now is just a, it's there, same shape, it's just a little more intensified.
ABBY: What was your favorite trick of the trade that you learned while you were in the Academies?
ELLA: They learned from me.
ABBY: Oh, they learned from you? (Abby chuckles)
ELLA: At this point, yeah.
ABBY: What did you teach…
ELLA: Being African American, too, and I did a lot of the makeup. I painted Mother Mame for years, for years, for years.
ABBY: How did your makeup routine sort of change as you, like over the decades, of you performing?
ELLA: With time? How did it change? Cosmetics changed, so we were adapted to learning different techniques. You know, we didn't have all the colors back in the 70s and 80s that we have now.
The makeup now has changed, you know, thanks to RuPaul's Drag race everything is over the top. It's extra, it's extra. Me, personally, I don't think the new, they blend as much as we did back in the day, in blending. They want it more pronounced so to say, drama.
ABBY: What do you think really makes or breaks a Drag makeup, something that can ruin it and something that can fix it?
ELLA: Eyelashes.
ABBY: Eyelashes.
ELLA: If you don't have the right eyelashes on your eye, it's not going to look right. You either, going to look too closed in. Now, I notice it's eyelashes. For me, always has been, but I noticed a lot of the kids now just using top lashes.
I was taught to use top and bottom, and I kind of started that trend, matter of fact, in the Academies, wearing bottom lashes. But I learned it from Mother Mame, but they, so these for them, that would be their bottom lash.
ABBY: Oh, wow.
ELLA: Yeah, when you look back at old school, yes. Miss Ball and all them, oh yes, they were nothing but eyelashes.
ABBY: If someone were trying to get into Drag makeup or learn about makeup, where would, where would you think is the first place for them to really go and learn?
ELLA: From another Queen (laughs). Just to be from another, from someone that does it. And then, what I also teach people, or tell people, learn basics from everybody. Then you do your own technique. You put everybody together. Oh, I remember he taught me this, or she taught me this, and she taught me that.
ABBY: What were some of your favorite things about getting ready with all the different Queens in the dressing rooms?
ELLA: Bitching, listening to them complain.
(mimicking conversations with other Drag Queens while getting ready) “Do I have to open first after you tonight? Who's going for, I'm doing that number tonight. Uh, can I borrow some eyelash glue? Can I borrow some crazy glue?”
“Didn’t I let you borrow crazy glue last night, young lady? Buy your own.”
“Anybody got an extra pair of pantyhose?”
Just like in theater, dressing here, all that, and I loved them, and wanted them to look their best, so I would give in and still bitch at them.
“Didn’t I tell you to buy crazy glue last night? Girl, you got a run in your hose.”
“Oh, I just did it.”
“You're a liar. You had a run in those hose last night.”
And this is one of the tedious things of Drag is eyeliner. I hate it. (Abby laughs) I hate it. If you don't have the right eyeliner, pencil or a pen, it can take forever to get a smooth, straight line.
Sorry about the pressure I'm putting on your hair, but I don't want you to move is all because I'm almost finished there. Ooof, that's hard.
ABBY: I was never good at eyeliner.
ELLA: But you got these big, beautiful eyes, so see how it makes it pop.
ABBY: Yeah, it's so hard to do. How long did it take you to feel like you really mastered?
ELLA: I haven't.
ABBY: You haven't… (Abby and Ella laugh)
ELLA: After 50 years, look, I'm up in there. I'm like, okay. Ugh, oh, I hate this pencil because I got some new ones, mmm girl, girl, eyeliner is the worst.
ABBY: How expensive was everything?
ELLA: Oh girl, I don't know where to start with that. Every weekend, I had to, just to do Drag, $20 easily. Crazy glue, nails, you have to repaint them every two weeks or whatever, pantyhose. Just routine stuff, baby wipes, baby oil to take it off, bobby pins, hair pins, hairspray, and that was just basics.
ABBY: Not even counting all the other extra accessories that you have.
ELLA: Right, foundation, always $30, $40 to cover our beards and then the translucent powder to dry down, and then our makeup and eyelashes and eyelashes and eyelashes.
ABBY: So even though you were making a lot of money during like, the peak of like, Ziegfelds and everything, you were still having to spend a lot of it.
ELLA: (with emphasis) A lot, a lot.
ABBY: To just maintain the look.
ELLA: A lot and having wardrobe, you know, having new outfits made, all that, all that. Right? Because I had at least one outfit every two months. So just because I made $500 Saturday night, I gotta go out Monday and spend $350 to buy fabric and then have someone make it, another $75 to $100 so, yeah,
ABBY: Wow.
ELLA: It was, we were constantly investing, you know? We were constantly investing, putting it back into each other.
Does she feel so different now [Abby] ? (giggles) She's so pretty, (Abby laughs) pretty with a lot of face, huh?
(soulful, romantic swells then fades out)
ABBY: Thank you so much for being here tonight. It was so fun to be able to talk all things about Drag and to do the Drag makeup. I look fabulous, and it's all thanks to you. Thank you so much.
ELLA: Yasss, just a little touch up.
ABBY: Just a little bit, nothing crazy. (Abby laughs)
ELLA: That’s so cool.
ABBY: So to send us home, we're gonna have you leave a voicemail on our Bare it All After the Beep phone. Her name is Phi-Phi. You could tell us about your favorite Queer memory in D.C.
ELLA: Okay
ABBY: Here you go.
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns starts playing and then fades into the background)
ELLA: Hi! This is Donnella, just here to let you know my favorite memory was today, hanging out with Abby and her crew. And my favorite memory probably was being at all my wonderful gay prides for 50 years and performing for my friends and fans and all that. I like the phone, bye! (hangs up the phone)
I gotta put, I gotta put Abby in Drag.
(Abby and crew laughs)
ABBY: Hey baby… we’re so glad you’re here, thanks for listening until the end of the episode.
Don’t you worry, we promise we won’t leave you hanging for too long. Next week, we’ll pick right back up on the history of bars starting in the late 80s and the retelling of one D.C.’s most beloved yearly traditions. We’ll also have another After Hours episode in two weeks time.
We want to thank the Rainbow History Project, the DC Public Library, and the countless other academics and historians, whether featured in these episodes or not, who really helped inspire and guide us through this process.
And shout out to the rest of the QTDP team, Ellie, Mads, and Sam for making this podcast happen.
You can find a transcript for this, and every episode, on our website at queeringthedistrictpodcast.com and linked in the episode notes.
If you want to learn more and stay up to date on all things Queering the District Podcast, follow our social media pages @queeringthedistrictpodcast! You don’t want to miss exclusive interview clips, juicy voicemails, and bi-weekly spotlights.
So, do you have a story to share? Think we missed something? Give us a call, and bare it all after the beep at 202-753-6570.
See you next time!
(Upbeat, groovy music with a synth piano and horns fades out)
